Live Forum - Let's take a glass together.

I'm currently standing in the glass bar at Sidetrack with about 80 other men. There's a great turnout this evening for the live podcast forum hosted by the Feast of Fools and brought to you by Life Lube.org, with Project CRYSP, The Chicago Task Force on LGBT Substance Abuse and Sidetrack. The topic this evening...Alcohol Use/Abuse in the GLBT Community.

There's a nice mix of men here this evening, everyone seems to be enjoying their surroundings, and might I add, what an interesting place to hold this forum - at Sidetrack - the best Gay Bar in the country.

It looks like they're starting, so lets take a glass together and enjoy the forum. The hosts this evening are Fausto Fernos & Marc Felion, hosts of the Feast of Fools, the #1 downloaded Gay Podcast on iTunes. Joining them on the stage this evening are:

Dr. David McKirnan, Professor of Psychology at University of Illinois at Chicago, and a Research Investigator at Howard Brown. He began studying alcohol & drug use among GLBT people in the mid-80s and he later examined the intersection of substance use & HIV risk. Think of him as the Dr. Kinsey of booze!

Lisa Rivitz, the Program Manager for Recovering with Pride Substance Abuse Program at Howard Brown Health Center. Her work focuses on addictions, 12-step recovery for substance abuse and other compulsive behaviors, working with individuals to overcome their abuse with drugs and alcohol.

And two bartenders from your favorite gay bars in Chicago, from Sidetrack Paul Davis and from Minibar, Tom Andrika. Paul’s been in recovery for as long as he’s been a bartender at Sidetrack, which has been called the “best gay bar in America.” What’s it like to be a bartender at such a well visited place when you don’t touch the sauce?

What does it mean to drink responsibly?

What is our relationship to alcohol. The boys start off by sharing some information about themselves. When Marc & Fausto first started the show four years ago they would always have a cocktail before (or during the show) because their vision of the show was that you (the listener) was stopping by for conversation and cocktails....but they do their show 5 days a week. They decided after a while that doing a show 5 days a week and drinking just didn't mix, so they started making their cocktails with water and continued on with the show, in fact Fausto's mother, who listens to the show, was concerned that he was drinking too much.

As a side note - the boys next to me have decided to play game where they take a drink everytime someone on the panel says "alcohol"

Marc is sharing another story of how he had a friend that he thought was drinking a lot, so he talked with her and voiced his concern. She told him "...from time to time, we all pass out in bars." To which Marc replied, "No, from time to time we don't ALL pass out in bars." Unfortunately due to her drinking problem Marc and she are no longer friends.

People don't think that alcoholism hurts you but a friend of Fausto's stopped drinking cold turkey - and died. Marc's sister died from an upper GI bleed - because she was a chronic alcoholic. Even though you may not think so, alcohol affects your body and your health in ways that you can't imagine.

A Toast: "Alcohol the cause of and the solution of all of life's little problems."

How do you keep track of your cocktails.

Fausto uses an ingenious way, he takes a sharpie and makes an x on the back of his hand - oh wait, no he doesn't, he just said that because David Beckham is the spokesperson for Sharpie and he wanted to work that link in there. Seriously though, after you've had a few drinks, you do sort of lose track of the total number that you've consumed.

Two of the other members of the panel join the boys on the stage: Lisa Rivets and David McKirnan,

Paint a picture of what it means to be GLBT today and what our relationship with alcohol is.

David: Today versus Yesterday....He's been in this field of work for 25 years - longer than most of the men in this room have been alive, and the one thing that sticks out is that there was no forum where GLBT could get together and talk. There's been a cultural shift that you can't over emphasize, the shift that it is. Look where we are? Look at how open it is, you can sit outside it's open, people are walking by on the street and able to see in. 25 years ago your basic gay bar was a smoky closed dump where you could never see in and once you were in you couldn't see out. It was a whole different world and a whole different field of study...and the thing is, that bars were all there were. There were no community centers like Center on Halsted, there was no place where people could converge and have a conversation like this, the bars were it.

We have more choices now

One of the first studies that David did was collecting interviews of coming out stories. At first he was amazed at the sheer number of guys that were kicked out of their homes by their parents. But a huge proportion of those men actually came out in the bars, because that was the only place that they could go.

Lisa: By the time that Lisa see's someone, they're coming to her because they know that they they have a problem. People do have more choices, the people that tend to come to Lisa for help are older men and women who came out in the bars. They typically have more issues with coming out, with socializing, or accepting themselves in the community, they always drank and it was a part of their life - and they still drink.

What is your interest in the GLBT community and Alcohol Use/Abuse?

Lisa: She is a member of that community, she enjoys working with glbt and knows the struggles they go through, she has gotten help for substance abuse in the past and now wants to help others. David's original interest was the connection between GLBT culture and alcohol abuse.

David was doing a study on Wilson Ave and his partner was working as a bartender at Different Strokes. She had mentioned to him that if he was interested in studying a group of people, she should take a look at some of her customers.

They conducted a large survey survey and the results showed that the use of alcohol was much lower than the myth of what was portrayed.

Gays are portrayed as alcoholics

It's the "Hollywood Way" - I've had a rough day so let's have a cocktail. And honestly, what is more stressful then being gay and hiding it. David continues talking about a study that they did comparing Straight Men to Gay Men of different ages and their use of Alcohol and Marijuana.

The graphs he says, look almost exactly the same, except that straight men were more likely to smoke marijuana. But an interesting thing happens around the age of 20, for straight men, the use of alcohol drops off, but gay men continue at that same rate for a much longer time. Typically in a heterosexual lifestyle, around the age of 20 a man will start to settle down, get married, have children - thus the alcohol use drops off.....but it's not the same way for gay men.

When you're gay, there's a lot of pressure. Pressure to feel/be hip, to be in shape, to be stylish. Gay men don't typically settle down at the same age as straight men, instead they're finding out what they want. It is much more acceptable to be an older gay man and be out in the bars drinking and looking for sexual partners than it is to be a heterosexual man in his 40's doing the same thing.

Do younger people struggle differently than their older counterparts? The younger ones are typically using other drugs in addition to alcohol and they're coming in for treatment sooner than they did before. The guys that in their 40's & 50's who seek treatment, are doing so because it's finally catching up to them. You can drink a lot and still not be alcohol dependent.

Why did they drink so much on TV in the 50's-60's & 70's, and we don't do that anymore?

The big difference was because that's what people did. People had bars in their home, they had a drink when they came home from work. TV was just mirroring what was going on in our own homes.

So, are we hiding it better now, are we drinking less?

People are still drinking, but now there is more of a concern about health than there was in the 70's, people are still drinking but they're more healthy. They're working out more, eating better.

Questions from the audience
What is the difference between alcohol and substance use/abuse or is there even one?

The majority of people who are drinkers are not abusers and are not dependent on alcohol. They can go out several times a week and it's jut part of the social experience. The difference is if there is a problem when drinking is involved, there are other signs that show up, they might be late to work, take too much time, spend more money than they intend to, they've given up other activities and suddenly everything centers around going out. Their world becomes more narrow.
Another element that is more relevant, are the motivations for drinking. It's not what you do, but why you do it. You drink with the strong expectation that this is going to make you a better person, more sexy. That is a predictor of problems versus the number of drinks that you consume. It's not what you do, but why you do it. People need to ask themselves: am I going too far, are there consequences, what is the personal cost, why am i doing this? Going back to Fausto's original idea to keep track of drinks - why do I have 6 or 7 marks on my hand when I only intended to have 2?

How can we determine if we are being successful in our moderation? It's when you can wake up the next morning and look at yourself in the mirror - do you feel guilty about what you did? Are you really in control?

How do we determine that the cause of the problem is alcohol?

Are the things that you do when you're drinking, things that you would do when sober. one way self-diagnose is to go for a week without a drink and if you have trouble doing that then sit down and think about why that is.....or whatever the problem is. It's not just alcohol, it could be any substance.

Is social drinking a form of addiction? There are a lot of men in their 60's who were social drinkers and performed well in their lives, but then all of a sudden they were in need of liver transplants. What do you mean by social drinking or are we trying to deny a drinking problem.

The "standard" for alcohol consumption is 2 drinks per day - for men - that's a standard shot, not an overpoured cocktail. For women it's even less, only one shot of alcohol per day, that works out to one glass of wine per day - the problem is, that's not much fun. People are really good at hiding that they're drunk.

A question is asked of the audience: How many people stop at 2 drinks? About 5 out of a hundred raise their hands.

The problem is really denial, we have our emphasis on some very serious drugs - like Crystal Meth. Everyone sees Crystal as the boogey man and they just tell themselves "Well, I'm only drinking, I'm not doing cocaine or crack, I'm just having a few drinks, what's the problem?" It's a form of denial. We seek out things to put the blame on, but we've accepted things in our life as "normal" and we blind ourselves from the real problems. In all honesty, the Crystal Meth issue is not a huge percentage of the GLBT Community, but almost all gay men drink. So alcohol is not seen as a problem because everyone uses it, but meth is a problem because so few people and the effects are so visible.

Why are we having this conversation in a bar?

Because this is the place where people who drink are coming, and we want to reach out to people, to make them aware of their drinking and give them a forum, like this, to be able to talk about it. There is no "one size fits all" solution to reaching people who have substance abuse issue, for some it's abstinence, for others they can moderate their drinking, but the message is that just because you do drink a often doesn't mean that you have to.

Bars are in integral part of our community, they are an interwoven piece of our community. The openness of the forum is a big thing and the message that it's healthy to have a bar that is not just a place to go and get cooked, there are other things that you can do there. That's why we're holding the forum here.

Tom Adrica from Mini Bar and Paul Davis from Sidetrack join the rest of the panelists on the stage.

How did you become bartenders in the first place, was this a dream job for you, or did you just settle?

Paul: He started at Sidetrack about 14 years ago as a doorman, he really just started working here as a job, he didn't drink but he could still hang out, meet people, have a few bottles of water and have a good time. He enjoyed being a doorman, but then he saw how much money he could make as a bartender. Sidetrack treats their employees well, they have Health Insurance, Dental Insurance, it's a good place to work.

What is the worst thing that you've seen?

One time he had to chase after someone who was having a bad drug reaction to anti-depressants and alcohol - they were running around the street in circles yelling and screaming.

Do you see yourselves as nurses, do you feel a certain responsibility that goes along with your position?

Absolutely! Sidetrack (as well as other bars) go through a lot of training with their bartenders, teaching them how they can approach someone who has had too much to drink, how they can help someone that may have met their limits. One thing in the state of Illinois is that if a person does anything while under the influence, the bartender is liable, everyone that interacted with that person (the doorman, the valet) is liable, so it's important to be able to see those signs in a person and react when necessary.

Have you ever had to take someone's keys.

Paul has a customer that he knows drives here and when he sees that his customer has had too much to drink he'll politely ask for the guys keys. Paul has a good rapport with his customers and he doesn't "point out" that someone has had too much to drink, instead he'll place a water in front of them to help them out.

What's the formula that you use to determine when to cut someone off?

Again it all comes down to training. The ability to see the signs and the behaviours, are they stumbling, slurring their speech, can you ask them a question and get an answer.

What can we do as friends to help our friends? How can we approach friends who may have a drinking problem?

Lisa: You can't take care of them, but you can express your concern. Explain to them the changes that you've seen in their behaviour, tell them about the things they used to do and what they do now. You can tell them what you see and you can suggest that they should get help, but they have to do it themselves.

What happens when you've shared that information with someone and they don't take your advice?

Paul: I cut people out of my life that told me I had a drinking problem, it was denial. Denial could be you standing there with a big sign up in the air saying "you drink too much" but to me it would be "why are you holding your arm up in the air?" You can be very accomplished at what you do and it will never occur to you that you should drink less.

Lisa: A lot of time when people seek us out for help, it may be because they were forced there, perhaps a DUI or work, or a lover - someone who has made the point and they've seen that they have a problem. You, as a friend, can help push them closer to that contemplation that they become aware that they have a problem, but they need to make that choice for help themselves. Some may listen and some may not.

Paul is a recovering alcoholic, does that make you nervous or anxious to see someone struggle with alcohol?

Paul: It doesn't make me nervous about my own drinking at all, when I work on a Saturday night and I see everyone partying and carrying on he is affirmed in his choice to not drink. A lot of people don't know that Paul is a recovering alcoholic and they want to do shots with him, he doesn't advertise that he doesn't drink, so while he'll make a Kool-aid shooter for them, he'll fill up a shot glass with cranberry juice and drink along with them and in fact there have been times when did "come out" to people an they chose to stop drinking after that, because they saw that you could still carry on and not drink.

David drinks, but Lisa doesn't - do you have anxiety regarding your own issues when you're helping out others with alcohol abuse?

For Lisa, she knows that anyone that comes to her for help has a chance of never having that problem again, and she wants to help as many people as she can. It doesn't make her falter about her own decisions because she sees the devastation that people have caused in their lives.

There is a lot of alcohol sponsorships in the GLBT Community, the Pride Parade has beer floats, brewers sponsor our events. What can we do as a community to address our collective issue with alcohol?

Paul: These are businesses, people, that are giving our community money,whether it be for good or ill. It's a fact: gay people like to drink and they choose to give their money back to those businesses that are supporting them in the community. I'm sure that if SC Johnson (a family company) had different programs we might be using more of their products. It just happens to be alcohol, but not all alcohol companies are supported - for example Sidetrack will not serve Coors because of what the organization supports.

Are we over reliant on money from alcohol companies?

I don't think so, I mean how much money is too much money? A lot of organizations have stopped taking tobacco money because of it's health effects. Are we so puritanical that we say we can take money from this group but not this group, it's not just alcohol, there are also a lot of automobile manufacturers that have donated money. Who do we say no too?

What do you feel you've learned over the years through your work?

Tom: he's been a manger and a bartender, he gets to step back and see other peoples reactions throughout the night. He used to be that "weekend warrior" or the person that had to celebrate his birthday for a week, but now he can say "No."

Lisa: It takes tremendous courage to become to a therapist and to say that I have a problem with alcohol, it's an honor for her to work with those people who have decided that it's time to get help.

David: Speaking as a researcher, it's always about getting funded. People don't fund projects on things they already know, so there's always that element of searching out the problems in a community whether it is alcohol, HIV or syphilis. He has seen the health and resilience of the gay community grow and expand.

Paul – the best hing about this job is that I get to meet people. The one thing that I've noticed is that they come to me for help, being on the other side of the fence he's able to offer advice and still remain friends with them and if someone does decide to stop drinking they still come to him because he's their friend.

END OF FORUM

Wow, what a great forum, please be sure to check out the Podcast version of the show over at the Feast of Fools

Keep a look out for the next Forum being held in November on "Booty Health"

For more info: Check out and subscribe to the Feast of Fools and please check out the sponsors of this great event: Life Lube.org, Project CRYSP, and Sidetrack.

LIVE BLOGGING EVENT - Sex on the Super Highway.

I'm currently at the Center on Halsted (Chicago’s GLBT Community Center) as an audience member about to participate in a live Feast of Fools podcast. The topic this evening is “Sex on the Super Highway - How is the Internet Changing Sex.” I figured I have a lot of experience in this area so this should be a fairly easy foray into a Live Blogging event. I’m going to attempt to report the news as accurately as I can and not interject my own opinions…..so here we go….

***Note, I was having problems connecting to the wireless network at the event so this was posted after the event.***

7:15 - Jim Picket is giving us an overview about what the event is and what's coming up. The next live podcast is July 23rd at Sidetrack. Remember you need to fill out the questionnaire (oh I love spell check). They're having a booty seminar later this year - not good booty - bad booty.

7:18 - Marc & Fausto of Feast of Fools make their grand entrance. Fausto stops at the piano and belts out their musical intro, those of us “in the know” smirk and giggle. The topic this evening is “How is the Internet changing our sexuality?” Three participants on the forum. Stephan Adelson, former GM of Manhunt.com, Beau Gratzer who works at Howard Brown and Brian Mustanski of UIC - all online sexperts.

Marc & Fausto start off the fun by giving us tips on how to make the best internet photo – because “A picture is worth five words.” Fausto poignantly points out that “You can't smell people from a photo.” So you’d better take hints about how people present themselves. Uh oh, they’re gonna show us real life dating site photos (I hope they didn’t find mine). OOOHHHHH Scary eyes. Some helpful hints:
- Don’t hide yourself in the photo. Like a hat pulled down over your eyes that says “Beer nuts.”
- Be awake in your own photo – no one wants to date a sleeping beauty.
- Learn Photoshop – at least the basics, like cut & paste.
- Don't go crazy with Photoshop – are you a leopard or a boy?
- Do not be afraid to ask for help from your friends - Spooky mirror shots aren’t good for anyone!
- Be mindful of where you are - There's a guy standing next to a huge cactus that looks like a penis. The cactus is way more interesting. The boys close the segment by reminding us that we've been alone too long

Stephen takes the seat, he’s the former GM from Manhunt.

What made Manhunt so special? Timing – AOL and the other sites had already worn themselves out by the time Manhunt came around (2000ish) and they were far too mainstream to handle such a sexual topic, they couldn't handle the adult content. The community on AOL faltered and collapsed in on itself and because of the way that they were funded (large national corporation sponsorships) they couldn't promote themselves as gay because they were afraid of losing their sponsors. Manhunt didn't need to do that. Manhunts money came from membership fees instead of advertisers, so they didn’t have to worry about pleasing their advertisers – only their clients.

What happens when things go wrong? Safety is a big issue, regardless of where you meet someone. The interesting thing about the internet is that you can get 20 men in 20 minutes. It's true that doesn’t even happen at a bar when you pass out and people step over you. Regardless of where you meet someone you have to be careful, especially when there are other "things" involved like sex & drugs. Drugs can cause a lot of problems because someone could get into trouble and be afraid to call the police because they don’t want to get in trouble themselves. The one thing you need to remember though is the Police are there to protect you, don’t be afraid to call if you get in trouble.

Here are some safety tips:
- Check the website your on and see if there are any tips – read them!
- Meet in public
- Make sure you're compatible with someone, a 5 minute IM conversation doesn’t count.
- Leave a screen name by your computer
- Make sure you're honest on your profiles kids, you don’t want to get beat up because you lied.

Why do people post online? Some use it as a tool to be a tease, they may post hot pics (maybe not even of themselves), go through all of the steps and then never follow through – just being an internet tease. Others use it as a way to boost their self-esteem, to post pictures and have tons of hits. Stephen admits that nothing shocks him - not even 2 girls 1 cup. Carrie Underwood is a Fat Cow. (Ricky made me say that because he keeps looking at what I’m typing - I don't even know who he is).

Why is Online Sex So Easy? Now we're being exposed to gay sex all the time via the internet. Before it was a lot of sensationalism – Richard Gere with the Gerbil or S&M, you had to imagine what it was like. But now you don’t need to pretend, the Internet has made it super easy to find whatever you’re looking for. Sex is more public than it has ever been before, and it’s ok to have those feelings.

Manhunt was the first site to include HIV status online, at first they didn't include it because they didn't feel that the community was ready for it. But in 2003 they were the first ones that allowed users to disclose their status online. Stephen said that his goal was to increase the conversation around HIV it's not just a field in a box. He does think though that if he had it to do over again he would get rid of the absolutes (Yes/No) and instead add an option like “Presumed Negative” and add a date of your last test.

Beau from Howard Brown, director of HIV and STD Prevention, joins the boys on the couch. He is responsible for online outreach. They've been doing Online Outreach since 1999 and they're looking for volunteers. The biggest question they get is “how safe is oral sex and HIV” and “where can I get tested.” Beau said that in the first chatrooms, most of the people that were dispensing advice or health information were not qualified and lots of times passed along wrong information. He says that their biggest challenge is getting people interested.

Manhunt was the first site that took the lead in promoting the conversation of HIV and STD’s. One of the big things that HBHC did was create policies and procedures so that they could go to other sites and show them that they had policies in place and they knew what they're doing.

Some of the deterrents to having Public Health Outreach on sex sites felt that people go to sex sites to escape the everyday things and that having Howard Brown there reminding them of HIV and other STD’s they were actually pestering their clients – I mean, who wants to think about that stuff when all you want to do is get hot and horny. When clients would come in to get tested and have a positive result, HBHC started tracking the sites that people reported they “hooked up on” from there they started contacting those sites first. The biggest problem that HBHC had was there were hundreds of sites and only one of them, and there were other Public Health Orgs across the country trying to do the same thing.

Whats the difference between a website and a bathhouse – They’re both used for sex, right? So why does a bathhouse have to promote safe sex practices, yet websites don’t? It boils down to the difference between a virtual location and a physical location. With a bathhouse you have to make a conscious effort to go there and in the virtual world it's just a click away.

What are some sites doing to promote safe sex? MySpace & Facebook actually have a lot of health advocacy but it is geared more to the teenage crowd (Chlamydia, Syphilis, etc.) the difficulty of it all is that people need to seek out the information. HBHC and others have Facebook pages and sex site accounts, but they can’t actively go out and “minister” to people, people have to be interested and seek the counseling out.

There are some websites that are promoting the use of technology, like http://www.inspot.org/ which is a Partner Notification site. Users can go there and with simply an email address they can notify a partner that they should go and get tested. Partner Notification sites are important as it gives people anonymity and the ability to discuss something that’s difficult to discuss. The worst thing that can happen with a Partner Notification site is that someone goes and gets tested for an STD.

Brian joins the boys on the couch as the talk keeps going. Brian works for of UIC keeps his focus primarily on GLBT Minority Youth. The Internet has really given a voice to these individuals. It provides an outlet for education, going back to the earlier discussion of “being able to find anything via Google” it allows youths to get educated. Sex education barely talks about sex, so it’s even more difficult for youths to come to terms with themselves and provides a way for them to link with the community. They can be reached in a way they could never be reached before. It’s easy to “come out” on the Internet, all you do is set your profile to “gay” and suddenly everyone knows, whereas before you had to actually “come out” to everyone.

Poor Marc got de-friended on Facebook! I can’t believe that, but it must be true.

How is Internet addiction like other addictions? It's so easy, for example http://www.hotornot.com/, you get that instant gratification of grading someone and going onto the next one, the ability to look at one hot person after another, before you know it hours are gone.

Why do people sit in front of the Internet for hours? Well, people sit in front of the TV for hours. Finding something on the internet makes people feel like a hunter. They google it, find information and keep going. Sex is even easier, you look at profile after profile of sexually explicit photos, each one hotter than the other, you’re on a quest and you’re going to follow through with it. People enjoy that state of arousal they get from the internet, and it can go on for as long as they like.

What’s the next thing that’s hitting sex on the Internet? 2257 Laws – These laws require that primary producers of adult material maintain records that the person in the material is of legal age. Legislation is trying to pass these 2257 Laws onto secondary producers (websites like Manhunt, Craigslist) to make them responsible for their users content and verify that it is age appropriate. Since primary producers need to keep the record, attempting to roll it out to other adult sites is a way for the government to enforce it without actually having to acknowledging. They’re attempting to take on any website that has adult content. Their “goal” is to affect people’s behavior.

The final though is “You might be able to get people to not run a stop light if a cop is standing there but if he’s not there enforcing it, people are going to do what they want.”

Q&A is next and my fingers are tired, I’ve been typing for way too long.

The podcast isn’t up yet, but as soon as it is I’ll give you a link so you can go hear it for yourself.
I hope you enjoyed this Live Blogging Event!

Check out these great sites:

Feast of Fools
Center on Halsted
Howard Brown Health Center
Life Lube
Life Lub Blog